Green Building Forum - Will the green deal save homeowners money Sun, 10 May 2026 03:33:35 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Will the green deal save homeowners money https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142553#Comment_142553 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142553#Comment_142553 Fri, 13 Apr 2012 17:52:38 +0100 Brianwilson http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2012/apr/13/green-deal-save-homeowners-money]]> Will the green deal save homeowners money https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142554#Comment_142554 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142554#Comment_142554 Fri, 13 Apr 2012 18:03:35 +0100 Gavin_A
I'm pretty sure we'll be sticking to undercutting the green deal companies prices, and incorporating the work into the installation costs of PV to get band D or over instead of this nonsense.]]> Will the green deal save homeowners money https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142558#Comment_142558 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142558#Comment_142558 Fri, 13 Apr 2012 19:25:25 +0100 CWatters Will the green deal save homeowners money https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142565#Comment_142565 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142565#Comment_142565 Fri, 13 Apr 2012 20:37:51 +0100 DamonHD
Rgds

Damon]]> Will the green deal save homeowners money https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142593#Comment_142593 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142593#Comment_142593 Sat, 14 Apr 2012 06:13:41 +0100 SteamyTea Posted By: CWattersI think this subject has been discussed elsewhere on the forum. Didn't someone report that people preferred to be warmer then richer.
Yes, I did.
It all depends on how the performance is measured. So if you have a warmer house after and use the temperature difference as the measure, then no saving, if you have the same temperature difference then there will be a saving.
I would hope that most people would be somewhere in the middle, so probably equals the the interest. So no bad thing in that scenario.
The real cost may come when the house is sold along with the debt on the Green Deal loan.
Would people pay more for a well insulated house or would they insist that the loan is paid off. I have a feeling that any good solicitor would advice that the loan is paid off.]]> Will the green deal save homeowners money https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142597#Comment_142597 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142597#Comment_142597 Sat, 14 Apr 2012 07:22:40 +0100 Joiner Will the green deal save homeowners money https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142600#Comment_142600 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142600#Comment_142600 Sat, 14 Apr 2012 07:35:27 +0100 SteamyTea Posted By: JoinerThat last point is well made. A factor I'd never considered before. It's essentially a charge on the property and you're right, I can't see a solicitor being happy with it either.
Wonder if they have learnt from the Roof for Rent scheme. I doubt it.

I get the feeling that what they have tried to create is a scheme that looks like it has no cost. But I cannot see how this can happen if you are adding materials and labour, both of which have a price attached to them. Must have been the same people that created the scheme to bail Greece out. That ended with Germany writing a large cheque. And then another one.]]> Will the green deal save homeowners money https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142622#Comment_142622 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142622#Comment_142622 Sat, 14 Apr 2012 10:10:11 +0100 ted
But the Green Deal is really designed to address the issue of the lump sum capital spend where home owners won't invest because they know they won't get the money back when they move house. No one wants to invest in something with a 20 year payback if they won't breakeven during their time in the property.

Unfortunately DECC seem to have ignored any psychological assessment of how we humans actually behave in these circumstances.]]> Will the green deal save homeowners money https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142631#Comment_142631 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142631#Comment_142631 Sat, 14 Apr 2012 11:22:45 +0100 CWatters Will the green deal save homeowners money https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142652#Comment_142652 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142652#Comment_142652 Sat, 14 Apr 2012 15:17:13 +0100 ted
In Sutton 50% of households initially approached were not interested in the scheme - and this was with the added incentives of a 40% grant and a zero interest loan for the 60% balance.]]> Will the green deal save homeowners money https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142909#Comment_142909 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142909#Comment_142909 Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:13:43 +0100 djh Posted By: tedIn Sutton 50% of households initially approached were not interested in the scheme - and this was with the added incentives of a 40% grant and a zero interest loan for the 60% balance.
The scariest thing about that report you posted, Ted, was that the end result was, if I remember correctly, an average 26% reduction in energy use. As I understand it, we're looking for three times that reduction over the twenty-five year period. So even with a 40% bung, the measures were completely unfit for purpose. If the green deal were a financial scheme, I expect there to be a huge miss-selling scandal a few years down the track.]]> Will the green deal save homeowners money https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142915#Comment_142915 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142915#Comment_142915 Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:26:39 +0100 DamonHD
But, yes, a 50% reduction would be more like it, and doesn't require herculean effort as I know myself.

Rgds

Damon]]> Will the green deal save homeowners money https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142917#Comment_142917 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142917#Comment_142917 Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:39:53 +0100 DamonHD
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/businessandecology/energyefficiency/9202836/The-Green-Deal-feels-the-heat.html

Rgds

Damon]]> Will the green deal save homeowners money https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142926#Comment_142926 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142926#Comment_142926 Mon, 16 Apr 2012 15:18:26 +0100 ted
In total 811 measures were installed across 311 households with d/glazing, PV and boiler upgrades being the 3 main ones (these alone totalled 412 or just over half the total).

I wonder what the resulting saving figures would be if PV was excluded from all the results.

The 72% figure relates to the number of householders (n=92) who were confident that the measures installed would result in them making savings. It is not a figure based on real energy bill data.

"Though the quantitative survey was undertaken early in the post-installation period, most of the householders said they were not checking bill savings from energy bills against the predicted savings from their report."

"46% of householders reported they had checked their bill savings post installation (or checked the amount of electricity the solar panels were generating)."

"A third felt that they were saving more on their energy bills than they were paying back in monthly instalments. It seemed that many were not overly worried about the actual energy or bill savings they were achieving. Many householders were trying to reconcile the lower savings with recent bad weather or other external factors – price rises, changes in circumstance."

"Due to tight delivery timescales only 29 householders, at the time of interview, had experienced a sufficient period30 living with the installations to comment on whether they had observed any changes to their energy bills."

"14 out of the 29 (48%) reported that their energy bills were now lower. However, few had hard evidence or figures to provide."

So 14 out of 311 installs reported actual lower energy bills.]]> Will the green deal save homeowners money https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142928#Comment_142928 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=142928#Comment_142928 Mon, 16 Apr 2012 15:44:42 +0100 djh Posted By: DamonHDExcept that the first 26% reduction is worth having, and rising energy prices will surely incentivise/permit more works later for these or other houses.
I don't think it is. It just builds a false sense that we're making progress when all we're doing is planning to fail. If rising energy prices really are a cert, it would make more sense to carry out the comprehensive measures now, rather than install something now that has to be ripped out and replaced within its planned financial lifetime.

Posted By: DamonHDThe Sutton numbers look better here:

Well, no. That article is talking about a quite different aspect. It doesn't address the point that if people are taking out 25-year loans then the appropriate energy target for the measures is the one in twenty-five years time, not just to meet the target set for eight years time.]]> Will the green deal save homeowners money https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=143091#Comment_143091 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=143091#Comment_143091 Tue, 17 Apr 2012 19:43:55 +0100 windy lamb
I thought those energy ratings in the home buyers packs were supposed to overcome that. - Oh that's right another government scheme that waisted every ones time and money!]]> Will the green deal save homeowners money https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=143106#Comment_143106 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=143106#Comment_143106 Tue, 17 Apr 2012 21:13:57 +0100 DamonHD
1) They can be used to forbid rental or even sale of sub-standard properties which is good from health and fuel poverty and AGW points-of-view.

2) I will certainly resist ever buying anything less than a B rating as and when we move. Will save me a lot of trouble trying to double-guess what's going on in the house from a survey.

Rgds

Damon]]> Will the green deal save homeowners money https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=143110#Comment_143110 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=143110#Comment_143110 Tue, 17 Apr 2012 21:46:52 +0100 tony
I would like to see energy being saved at no additional cost which is what I really like about the ideas behind the green deal.]]> Will the green deal save homeowners money https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=143119#Comment_143119 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=143119#Comment_143119 Tue, 17 Apr 2012 22:06:50 +0100 SteamyTea Has also put people off even asking for a PV quote as they may have convinced themselves that it will cost thousands to put their houses right. Anyone got views on that?]]> Will the green deal save homeowners money https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=143120#Comment_143120 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=143120#Comment_143120 Tue, 17 Apr 2012 22:10:57 +0100 Joiner Will the green deal save homeowners money https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=143380#Comment_143380 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8934&Focus=143380#Comment_143380 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 08:19:48 +0100 biffvernon The best talk was by Russell Smith of Parity Projects - plenty to look at on his website: http://www.parityprojects.com/
He seemed to have a good grip on reality, having started off by insulating his own ordinary Victorian house to close to Passivhaus standard.]]>