Green Building Forum - Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

stephenmooney — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 16:28:01 +0100

We are looking for technologies that are 1-5 years from market readiness. Total order volume would be in the region of 5 million litres/year. Please feel free to contact me via the forum or directly at stephen.mooney@iveridis.com

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

DamonHD — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 17:12:28 +0100

This would appear to be using GBF for free advertising, which if so is clearly against the rules.

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

stephenmooney — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 17:18:55 +0100

I am looking a solutions that can help my customer, I am not trying to make sales or take anything from these companies. If I am violating some rue I am happy to take the post down. Should I not post my email address?

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

renewablejohn — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 09:04:53 +0100

I did think this was a spoof but if serious I do have a diesel substitute which would meet you requirements just needs some serious investment to set up a pilot plant.

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

SteamyTea — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 09:19:18 +0100

C10H16 by any chance?

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

stephenmooney — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 12:29:21 +0100

Hi Renewablejohn-not a spoof. This is the first time I have used the forum so may not have followed the best protocol. We have specific details that I am happy to share via email stephen.mooney@iveridis.com

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

renewablejohn — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 14:05:51 +0100

Posted By: SteamyTeaC10H16 by any chance?

Did not realise I was that obvious

Brownie points for you today

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

Triassic — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 14:06:05 +0100

Are you sure your client understands all the environmental and social issues of going down the biofuel route?

Research suggests that GHG emmissions for biofuel may be as high as oil based fuel.

http://www.nnfcc.co.uk/tools/ghg-benefits-from-use-of-vegetable-oils-for-electricity-heat-transport-and-industrial-purposes-nnfcc-10-016

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

finny — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 16:37:54 +0100

Is that wood turps? From Larch??
Can't quite do 5 million l/year tho..maybe we could club together??

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

SteamyTea — Wed, 04 Jul 2012 18:06:22 +0100

5 Million Litres per year
About the amount of tea I drank a couple of days ago doing a test.

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

renewablejohn — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:37:16 +0100

Posted By: finnyIs that wood turps? From Larch??
Can't quite do 5 million l/year tho..maybe we could club together??
http://1.2.3.9/bmi/www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/cool.gif" alt="" title="" >

Get approx 10 ltrs per tonne so 5 million ltrs would be less then the biomass used at just one of the proposed biomass plants. Extraction is a by product of the pelleting process

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

SteamyTea — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 10:57:43 +0100

Can't it be put back into the pellets to up the energy density, may help lubrication too.
I claim that as my intellectual property (10:58 05/07/2012)
Along with anything else combustible. Plastics would be a good one, loads of Joules in that.

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

finny — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 12:11:25 +0100

didn't spot that, was at clifford jones in ruthin recently.. big plant that, must be producing some litreage..

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

renewablejohn — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 12:56:34 +0100

Posted By: SteamyTeaCan't it be put back into the pellets to up the energy density, may help lubrication too.
I claim that as my intellectual property (10:58 05/07/2012)http://1.2.3.9/bmi/www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/wink.gif" alt="" title="" >
Along with anything else combustible. Plastics would be a good one, loads of Joules in that.http://1.2.3.10/bmi/www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/devil.gif" alt="" title="" >

Part of the reason for taking it out in the first place is to increase the energy density to the equivalent of coal and therefore less tonnage to transport. The product will also store outside in the open unlike normal wood pellets.
Plastics are good at making wood slip through the pelleting moulds but then your restricted to WID compliant fuel plants who think that fuel should cost them nothing or even have to pay to get rid of your nasty plastics.

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

Mike (Up North) — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 13:09:55 +0100

Hi,
As we are drifting off into pellets, a process for increasing the energy density is torrefaction or torrefied biomass.

Cheers, mike up north

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

Triassic — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 13:25:53 +0100

I'm sat in my office looking out on a new waste fuelled power station in the construction phase.

The waste is torrefied - with anything that can't be recycled, mainly black bag houshold waste!

The locals are horrified!!

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

renewablejohn — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 13:35:21 +0100

Posted By: Mike (Up North)Hi,
As we are drifting off into pellets, a process for increasing the energy density is torrefaction or torrefied biomass.

Cheers, mike up north

Looks like you scored the brownie points today

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

SteamyTea — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 14:25:06 +0100

Haven't we done torrification and found it wanting?

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

Mike (Up North) — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 15:38:13 +0100

I dont recall but probably wanting as is still burning and hence producing some nasties. Assuming it is wood based, the main reason is that it reduces water content etc and ups the density so makes transportaion more economic, also can be stored outside, dosnt take up water, no bio activity - dosnt rot etc etc So its more an improvement on the current wood pellets. I think one of the main uses is pulverised and mixed in to bulk up coal fired feed rather than a whole source on its own. For coal firing it needs to be a dust blown in with the coal dust.
I think anyhting to do with black bag ops (who said that) would be straight incineration of waste whether you pre treat it or not.

Cheers Mike up North

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

renewablejohn — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 19:32:14 +0100

Posted By: SteamyTeaHaven't we done torrification and found it wanting?

Only if you have to use fossil fuel in the drying process. If you can use renewable energy which I do then your in a win win situation having a more energy dense fuel requiring less fuel to transport and a liquid diesel substitute as a by product.

As for nasties most are removed in the torrefication process to leave you with a fuel that burns cleanly.

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

fostertom — Fri, 06 Jul 2012 09:46:51 +0100

Posted By: SteamyTeaCan't it be put back into the pellets to up the energy density ... Along with anything else combustible. Plastics would be a good one

No, stop thinking that way. Turps OK - it's a renewing resource. Plastic no, nor any other finite material resource.

From http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=9292 :

Posted By: jamesingramCradle to cradle materials (plastics?)
Extract resource once only, then ; form , use, collect , reform , use, etc.
Call them technicial elements.
thats the future for sustainable production and resource use .
Similar process for organic elements is required
Important to create a cyclicial process that can be power by renewable (solar) energy and has no negative effluent by-product.
Nothing more than a design problem waiting to be solved.

If not practicable/economic now, then stockpile (aka landfill) till it is. And stop making biodegradeable plastics - they just turn into CO2 plus nasties, so aren't then available as future raw material.

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

JSHarris — Fri, 06 Jul 2012 09:56:52 +0100

Posted By: fostertomNo, stop thinking that way. Turps OK - it's a renewing resource. Plastic no, nor any other finite material resource.

What about the plastics that Toyota use in the interior of my car? They are made from corn starch, so at least the base feed stock material is carbon neutral and renewable. The problem then comes with the energy needed to process the corn starch into feedstock, plus the energy needed to recycle the stuff, but that's not much different to the energy needed to process plastics derived from non-renewable sources, as I understand it.

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

fostertom — Fri, 06 Jul 2012 10:17:11 +0100

I'll stop saying that finite material resources such as plastics shouldn't be burnt or otherwise decomposed, but should be stockpiled for future quarrying, when and if plastics from renewables become a really significant alternative (so we won't need those stockpiles any more) - which they won't ever, because they compete for food-growing land (until world human pop drops by 90%).

Posted By: JSHarristhe energy needed to recycle the stuff

is clearly enormous, because pushing chem reactions 'back uphill'. No chance if that energy comes from non-renewables (also nuclear I say), or from renewables for which non-renewables then have to substitute. Wholesale recycling can only come if powered by solar energy in a way that doesn't deprive the existing energy supply serving existing purposes. So some way off yet - but it must come.

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

SteamyTea — Fri, 06 Jul 2012 16:00:56 +0100

Posted By: SteamyTeaAlong with anything else combustible. Plastics would be a good one, loads of Joules in that

Was taking the mick a bit there, why do we want to keep burning stuff.

Be interesting if someone worked out the costs involved in supplying my house (4.5 MWh.year^-1) with combustible/non combustible energy and what land/sea area, air volume, would be needed for a reliable and variable supply. May give it a stab myself. I will allow storage to be buried on my land, but not under the house as it has a house on it, but the garden is fine.

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

fostertom — Fri, 06 Jul 2012 16:06:54 +0100

Posted By: SteamyTeaWas taking the mick

I shoulda known that

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

SteamyTea — Fri, 06 Jul 2012 16:07:28 +0100

Can anyone point me towards next generation biofuel companies to fulfil a UK FTSE 100 buyer

renewablejohn — Sat, 07 Jul 2012 05:17:25 +0100

Posted By: SteamyTea
Posted By: SteamyTeaAlong with anything else combustible. Plastics would be a good one, loads of Joules in that

Was taking the mick a bit there, why do we want to keep burning stuff.

Be interesting if someone worked out the costs involved in supplying my house (4.5 MWh.year^-1) with combustible/non combustible energy and what land/sea area, air volume, would be needed for a reliable and variable supply. May give it a stab myself. I will allow storage to be buried on my land, but not under the house as it has a house on it, but the garden is fine.

Steamy

Done some rough costs on the Hydrogen thread but min spend would be approx Â£10k and would include 20 m2 of solar thermal with additional Â£3k for biomass backup but I know your not into biomass.