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Heating and cooling: Smoke Nuisance – is wood wood?

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  1.  
    Who is responsible for seeing that the conditions of the Tomlin Order are fulfilled?

    You could talk to the local building control and tell them that the chimney is to be increased in height and who is going to do it (they will know who is a cowboy builder and who is not!) and also tell them that the Order specifies that a suitably qualified expert has to assess the suitability of the chimney but you have not yet seen the report and you are worried that the chimney might topple.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMay 14th 2018
     
    I would say already a breach of the Tomlin order and this should be recorded in writing and reported to the court.
    • CommentAuthorMikeee5
    • CommentTimeMay 14th 2018
     
    Fantastic idea Peter, a call to Building Control will definitely be on my to do list this week.

    I`ve mentioned the visit by the rogue trader to my solicitor and he has said that the Tomlin Order hasn't even been signed by the other side yet. This makes it even more worrying as the builder said he was due to start in a matter of days!! No sign of any documentation in compliance with CDM regs too, some interesting events ahead me thinks !!
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeMay 14th 2018
     
    Does the rogue trader know he's walking into a minefield of solicitors and courts etc? I'd be surprised if he didn't run a mile as soon as he heard.
    • CommentAuthorMikeee5
    • CommentTimeMay 15th 2018
     
    It's certainly going to be interesting djh. Apparently he's done porridge for ripping people off and leaving unsafe work !!
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeMay 15th 2018
     
    djh +1
    or:
    Assuming your neighbours know about the builders alleged track record, ( if it's true), it intrigues me why they would choose such a person,- ( maybe they don't know, and perhaps you should tell them, for their sake as well as your own.).
  7.  
    Hi,
    Still following this site.
    I think they chose him deliberately because they don’t ever intend to do the work. Or they can sack him later and thereby delay again. Worst for them would be a competent builder who’d want to crack on with the job and have some integrity about solving the problem.
    Sorry to be negative – real world.
  8.  
    Price is often a decider on choosing a builder !!
    • CommentAuthorMikeee5
    • CommentTimeMay 16th 2018 edited
     
    Update: The agreement has now been signed and is on its way to the court. There are quite a few sections in the agreement that I very much doubt the Rogue Trader could comply with. We've thought about speaking to the neighbours but feel it may backfire on us so we have decided to stick to communicating via the solicitors for the time being. We've contacted a couple of people that have been ripped off by the RT. One of them is an elderly gentleman who the RT charged over £14,000 for tile repairs. The RT also damaged a flat roof during their visit and tried to convince the elderly gentleman that his roof was defective and was going to cost several thousand pounds to replace. Luckily the home owners daughter stepped in at this point. The RT was very aggressive with the lady when she confronted him !!
    • CommentAuthorMikeee5
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2018 edited
     
    I spoke to Building Control yesterday and they have informed me that my neighbours have employed a Building Control Consultancy company to oversee the remedial work and sign off the relevant stages of the construction. I guess this is a positive step forward !
    • CommentAuthorMikeee5
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2018 edited
     
    .
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2018
     
    Posted By: Mikeee5I spoke to Building Control yesterday and they have informed me that my neighbours have employed a Building Control Consultancy company to oversee the remedial work and sign off the relevant stages of the construction. I guess this is a positive step forward !


    Think that just means they are using a private Building Control company _instead_ of the Council Building Control Department to ensure compliance with the regulations. Few people know this is possible but it can work out cheaper.

    Unfortunately I suspect it means the council BCO won't want to hear any concerns you have because they are no longer really involved. It's also unlikely you would be able to talk to the private co as they will turn round and say they don't work for you.

    If you do happen to see their man on site mention your concerns about the builder and make them aware of the court case.
    • CommentAuthorMikeee5
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2018 edited
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: CWatters</cite><blockquote><cite>Posted </blockquote>

    Unfortunately I suspect it means the council BCO won't want to hear any concerns you have because they are no longer really involved. It's also unlikely you would be able to talk to the private co as they will turn round and say they don't work for you.</blockquote>

    The lady that I spoke to at out BC said exactly that CWatters.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2018
     
    It is still eventually up to the local authority BC to take enforcement action if required.

    https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200128/building_control/38/building_regulations/3

    "Where an approved inspector is providing the building control service, the responsibility for checking that the building regulations are complied with during the course of your building work will lie with that inspector. They will usually do this by advising you.

    However, approved inspectors do not have formal enforcement powers. In a situation where the inspector considers your building work does not comply with the building regulations and there is a refusal to bring it into compliance the inspector will cancel the initial notice. If no other approved inspector takes on the work, the building control function will automatically be taken on by your local authority. From this point on, your local authority will also have enforcement powers set out above where it considers this necessary."
    • CommentAuthorMikeee5
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2018 edited
     
    Thanks for that djh. Is it likely that the only check they can do here is that the chimney is compliant with the minimum requirements as specified in Part J? Or in my case comply with the recommended height increase as specified by the expert witnesses.
    • CommentAuthorgoodevans
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2018
     
    I'm afraid that it might be that the Builder/RT employed the approved inspector - and it might be that the Builder has a 'good' relationship with that inspector. Good luck.

    What measures have you got in your agreement that allow you to verify that the work has been done to the agreement?
    • CommentAuthorMikeee5
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2018
     
    Good point GoodEvans. I would be surprised if the RT had any dealings with any building control officers given his reputation, however, stranger things have happened at sea !

    're the agreement, there is no clause covering that the work has been completed to the agreement. However the expert witnesses recommendations are specified in the document. We did try to get something in about quality assurance however it was discussed with my legal bod and the other side and it was excluded from the agreement. So I guess now we're in the hands of the freelance building inspector. In saying that I know one or two builders and I will ask them to quality check the work on completion.
  18.  
    Mikeee5 - I don't think you have much control about the quality of the work done, that is a problem for the person contracting (paying) for the the work. If what goes up is badly done then the neighbour will be the only one with a legitimate claim. It does not have to look nice, just function according to design. If the work proved to be unsafe then you would have a claim - if its failure affected your property. If you thought that the work done was unsafe then short of blatant defects I don't think that such a claim would go far (until a failure was evident).

    However the work should meet the specifications laid down by the expert witness and this I think you would have a right to check either yourself or your agent (i.e. a builder you know) or even the expert witness to confirm that what he recommended has been done.
    • CommentAuthorMikeee5
    • CommentTimeMay 27th 2018
     
    Nice one Peter . I certainly think we've got interesting times ahead.
    • CommentAuthorMikeee5
    • CommentTimeJun 12th 2018
     
    I 've just noticed that my neighbours stove is no longer on the DEFRA exempt list !!
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJun 12th 2018
     
    Well spotted
  22.  
    Posted By: Mikeee5 quote I've just noticed that my neighbours stove is no longer on the DEFRA exempt list !!

    Unfortunately if it was on the list when it was installed..............
    There could be a number of reasons why it was removed e.g. no longer in production or stricter regs, but if it was OK at installation time then you won't be able to retrospectively do anything.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJun 12th 2018
     
    As it will be having a new chimney there could be a chance of something nice being able to happen
    • CommentAuthorMikeee5
    • CommentTimeJun 13th 2018 edited
     
    I don't suppose it wouldn't hurt anything if I queiried it with the freelance building inspector ! :wink:
  25.  
    Posted By: Mikeee5I don't suppose it wouldn't hurt anything if I queiried it with the freelance building inspector !https:///newforum/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title=":wink:" >

    But if the freelance building inspector is paid for by your neighbour, first he does not have to discuss this with a third party and second he should not say anything detrimental to his clients position. So whatever he says has to be viewed in this context.
    • CommentAuthorMikeee5
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2018 edited
     
    I wonder if it's worth querying with my local authority. I know from experience that it's got to be on the exempt list to be used in a smoke control area.
  27.  
    Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryUnfortunately if it was on the list when it was installed..............

    If the stove was on the exempt list when it was installed then unless a retrospective regulation is enacted (unlikely) then the stove will remain accepted. Think motor cars - a car produced 10 years ago won't pass todays emission standards for a new car but it can still be used on the roads and passes the MOT (for the standard of its day)
    • CommentAuthorMarkyP
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2018
     
    it's a long shot but there's an element of Trigger's Broom at play here. At what point does this become a new installation? New chimney and, I assume, new flue liner, plus a test and re-commission by someone competent. It would certainly be worth calling HETAS and asking their advice on this scenario. If you could get in writing that this would be considered a new installation, that would potentially be very useful.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAh8HryVaeY
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2018
     
    +1
    • CommentAuthorMikeee5
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2018 edited
     
    I've asked the question, will be interesting to see the response. Triggers broom lol. :bigsmile:

    Penny has just dropped, bits changed but it's the same broom !

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