Sat, 09 May 2026 20:27:28 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=99&Focus=2027#Comment_2027 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=99&Focus=2027#Comment_2027 Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:38:16 +0100 fostertom Posted By: biffvernonsome of the energy comes from oxidising the hydrogenOf course - why didn't I realise that? Makes a big difference.
Oil also, like methane (natural gas) is all-hydrocarbon. What %age then of fuel value (energy of oxidation released) comes from hydrogen versus carbon, in typical hydrocarbon as fuel? Does wood really contain any pure carbon - isn't its combustible matter all-hydrocarbon?]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=99&Focus=2148#Comment_2148 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=99&Focus=2148#Comment_2148 Fri, 13 Apr 2007 17:30:19 +0100 John11668 They are reopening the mines in South Wales because the price of imported stuff has gone up to the extent that it is now economic to dig the British coal.
We are committed until alternative sources of power generation catch up and I indeed wonder if they ever will.
So I expect coal and nuclear will satisfy a large proportion of demand for the foreseeable future.

I would be happier to see coal burnt in power stations than on open fires. At least the products can be scrubbed of many of the pollutants and hopefully carbon capture will become a reality soon.

The biggest factor in making power plant more efficient would be to move generally toward CHP. The heat wasted at the back end of the generation process is criminal and cannot go on. Expect the next generation of power stations to be urban ones with district heating from a number of heatbanks distributed around the district. Anyone with surplus capacity will be encouraged to distribute it into the system.

We seem to have to have our Cumbrian fells surrounded by Aerogenerators. I am looking forward to the debate about siting a Large CHP plant in Windsor or Richmond]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=99&Focus=2149#Comment_2149 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=99&Focus=2149#Comment_2149 Fri, 13 Apr 2007 17:54:44 +0100 John11668
If coal and pellets are priced similarly at about £170 per tonne and the calorific value of your pellets is about half of that of coal so it is going to cost you twice as much for the same amount of heat. On top of this you are going to have a vastly more expensive and complicated boiler which could be less reliable., and the chances are that it will be expensive to repair.

If your consumption is only £20 per month (did you mean week) then you are hardly a major culprit in the environmental damage stakes.
Finally woodburning does not become carbon neutral till we are planting the trees sufficiently in advance and sufficiently in excess of usage.
Why dont we all pay a couple of quid a week in carbon offset fees ring fenced to increase the stock of wood and carbon absorbing vegetation, and carry on with the old boiler for as long as it continues to work reliably.
I suspect that the carbon footprint of the new one may never be saved in its working life.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=99&Focus=2532#Comment_2532 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=99&Focus=2532#Comment_2532 Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:18:47 +0100 sune
I haven't managed to get quite the figures I wanted but I have got quite close. I have prepared a page with a graph to compare co2 outputs of various fuel types: http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/fuel-co2-emissions.html
Some of the data are from the biomass energy centre and some from SAP figures (for part L1A building regs).

Burning wood is not carbon neutral - but if and only if it from a sustainable source (as John mentions) is very low carbon.

Cheers]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=99&Focus=2537#Comment_2537 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=99&Focus=2537#Comment_2537 Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:08:02 +0100 fostertom https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=99&Focus=2565#Comment_2565 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=99&Focus=2565#Comment_2565 Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:35:43 +0100 sune
Wood chips
For wood chips the data comes via the biomass energy centre from a paper from Sheffield Hallam university - I can forward it to you if you so wish. Just email me your email address. Mine is s u n e * stovesonline .co.uk replace the * with an @ - hopefully that will thrawt the dredded spam! The figures from the paper assume road transport of 90km.

Logs
I could not get a figure for logs but the asumption that wood chips create more co2 through processing than logs was verified by the biomass energy centre so I chose the highest figure for the wood chips as a figure that logs should be below.

Wood pellets
For pellets the figure is based on 100kWh of electricity / tonne plus the Co2 processing and transport costs associated with wood chips - this figure will be too high as wood pellets are generally made from manufacturing waste material not chipped by a machine.

Coal - the figure is based on the SAP figures from BRE. I do not know where they assumed that the coal was from. I have another figure from the Biomass Energy centre for the CO2 created from the burning alone of 0.342 kg CO2 / KwH - so this suggests that the SAP figure of 0.317 kg CO2/kWh for the lifecycle emissions of anthracite is actually too low.

I do not really have any more detailed info than that I am afraid - If you have any extra data I would be interested.

I agree there are no hard and fast results - all the figures are based on various assumptions. But hopefully I have made our figures as transparent as possible (without being full of too much explanatory text that would put off a layperson).

: )]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=99&Focus=2571#Comment_2571 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=99&Focus=2571#Comment_2571 Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:00:09 +0100 fostertom Posted By: sunewood pellets are generally made from manufacturing waste material not chipped by a machineThat's significant.
Thanks for doing the research, sune.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=99&Focus=2588#Comment_2588 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=99&Focus=2588#Comment_2588 Sun, 29 Apr 2007 09:40:18 +0100 adrian hollister
Sune, that's a great summary, many thanks. I'll link to it from my blog. I'm looking at heat logs from Agrol or similar at the moment for a coal replacement. They are manufactured, but like your chart demonstrates so well - there is little 'new' carbon emissions involved and they are a waste product.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=99&Focus=2628#Comment_2628 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=99&Focus=2628#Comment_2628 Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:58:07 +0100 fostertom http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=235&page=1#Item_0 - weigh the alternatives.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=99&Focus=3184#Comment_3184 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=99&Focus=3184#Comment_3184 Mon, 14 May 2007 12:55:25 +0100 Guest 1. It burns smokelessly(all biomass + low grade coal)
2. Uses up to 60% less fuel than any alternative
3. Boils 30 litres of water within 30 minutes(boiler part of stove)

Will be implemented in households in RSA as environmentally friendly device; health improvement and sustainable development project.

Unique concept - no electricity.]]>