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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

Buy individually or both books together. Delivery is free!


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    • CommentAuthorPeter A
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2007
     
    Has anybody found this magic button in the SAP 2006 software that can give an electrically heated home a pass in an instant?
    That aside perhaps it's good to just heat what you need at a moment in time. Could be used in conjunction with air to air heat pumps?
    Has anybody come across a good electric instant water heater that is suitable for the small home?
  1.  
    There are those 10l tanks with an element in which can feed 2 outlets, say a kitchen sink and a bathroom sink. Washers are cold fill now anyway and in a small flat you might just fit a cubicle with an electric shower. Cheap air to air heat pumps for heating. I considered this for a flat conversion project I've just finshed. Wish I'd done it now. Would have saved thousands compared to putting gas supplies on and wet plumbed heating systems.
    • CommentAuthoredwinvanek
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2007
     
    Have a look at the following heaters, I am thinking about getting one to use in combination with solar in the future. There are some more from other brands on the website. http://www.advancedwater.co.uk/CONTENT.ASPX?PAGE=PROD_ZIPINSTANT
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2007
     
    >Has anybody come across a good electric instant water heater that is suitable for the small home?

    I've allways wondered why it's thought a smaller house needs less instant hot water? Is the shower head any smaller? Taps any slower? :-) What's meant by "good"?

    The amount of power needed to heat up a gram of substance by one degree is called it's "specific Heat". It's a constant. A good heater will do that about as well as a bad heater if they are the same power. Perhaps not as reliably but thats another matter. It's not hard to work out how much power you need to provide a particular flow rate at a particular temperature rise. That used to be an O-Level physics question in my day at school....

    http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/spht.html

    "The specific heat of water is 1 calorie/gram °C = 4.186 joule/gram °C which is higher than any other common substance"

    1L = 1000g
    1 Joule per second = 1 Watt
    so
    1L/sec = 4186 Watts per degree C rise
    or
    1L/Min = 70 Watts per degree C rise

    So if the water comes into the house at 5C in winter and you need to heat it to 40C (perhaps too hot?) then that's a rise of 35C

    So..

    1L/min = 70 x 35 = 2.4KW
    or
    10L/min = 24KW

    To put this in context.. some countries are trying to steer consumers towards shower fittings that only use 7L/min to save water. If we took that as a target it means a heater of around...

    16KW for a 40C rise
    12KW for 30C rise
    8KW for a 20C rise.

    So the answer to the question is... How much water and how hot do you want it? Try measuring the flow rate and water temperature from a tap using a bucket and stop watch. Plug in the numbers and you get an answer in KW for your heater.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeDec 17th 2007
     
    If solar preheated water were to be used then all the figures would be greatly reduced or eliminated.

    It is a bit silly to heat water from cold mains temperature and would be better to let it warm up to ambient temperatures first, again making savings.
  2.  
    Say you have a tank of water that is heated by solar and a back boiler on a wood stove, is it better to have an electric immersion within the tank for back-up (say if didn't get round to lighting the stove in winter) or is it better to feed the water from the tank through an instant electric water heater to bring it up to temperature if necessary?
    • CommentAuthorPeter A
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2007
     
    Edwin, thanks for the link, the larger models which are what seem to be appropriate are unfortunately 3 phase, there's always a catch!
    CWatters, thanks for the physics lesson, it's been a long time school those days, it was a small home in the basis that it had a bathroom and ensuite only ie appartment, if a house then it possibly had a ground floor wc and utility along with kitchen which would mean that the piperuns might be overly long and energy would be wasted to become the "cold slug".
    Chris, Tony, the idea was to keep it as simple and cheap as possible but will play with the solar combination on SAP.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2007
     
    Chris W - Depends what you mean by better? Assuming you mean better for the environment.... I think it's more eco friendly not to store electrically heated water. (obviously storing solar heated water is OK). I think you could start with an immersion heater then if it turns out you need to use it a high percentage of the time, switch to an instant water heater. It should be possible to design the plumbing of a new house so that a instant heater can added later. Need to ensure there is just one hot pipe coming off the tank and that it goes to where the heater would be mounted before branching. Plus an electric supply.
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