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Heating and cooling: Boarding house heat wastage

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2015
     
    A boarding house which runs heating all day at 21C but 33% of students leave their windows open while at lessons and also keep them open in the evenings even in winter unless it is very windy AND cold. Communal rooms and WCs also have windows open in the sameroportion.

    Can anyone calculate the ammount of being heat wasted either as a proportion or in absolute or money worms (gas heating). I think it a lot and too much. There I'd no downside for the pupils though there is talk of cutting their wifi if they leave windows open.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2015
     
    Why not just cut the heating in each room that a window is open?

    Not really enough info to work out the air losses. You could try taking temperature readings in a room with a window closed, one with it open and the outside temp. Then calculate the volume of air lost via the SPC of air. Would only be a very rough approximation though.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2015
     
    Thinking of advising that, rad valves with window interlink but the cost, however would pay for themselves. Marketing on them claims 30% savings on heating.
  4.  
    ''absolute or money worms''

    Tony, could you get me some of those worms? :bigsmile:
  5.  
    It might be that the students are suffering because the air is too dry and they are trying to get fresh air.

    Maybe some sort of passive air humidifier on the rads. Its possible to buy inexspensive little ceramic pots that you hang on rads and fill with water.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2015
     
    Firstly are the student able to turn down the heating in their rooms?

    Are there TRV on each rad, if not how are they controlled?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2015
     
    Trv on all rads left on full all the time, even when the windows are open.
  8.  
    Energy that is free at the point of use (or charged at a flat rate regardless) will never be conserved! IMO the only way to reduce the energy would be to make the heating pay for quantity used........but then you would get mould problems because no one would ever open a window because of the heat loss.........

    As a thought has anyone ever seen a heat slot meter to go on a radiator a bit like the coin operated elec. meters but for heating?
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2015
     
    I think this is more of an economic problem than anything. The students are not in incentivised to save energy.
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2015
     
    Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryIMO the only way to reduce the energy would be to make the heating pay for quantity used........but then you would get mould problems because no one would ever open a window because of the heat loss.........
    That's the landlord's problem surely.
  11.  
    If the air is being dried out by the heating system and there is inadequate ventilation then it can turn into a vicious circle. The windows are being opened to get fresh air in, the rads are on full blast to keep up internal temp, this is drying out the air.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2015
     
    Most landlords include an "acceptable usage policy" in the AST and charge ALL the tenants if the usage of utilities goes about the set amount.

    Outside of the student market, I would be thinking about giving out a S21 to any tenant I found leaving windows open after the first warning. They don't work in the student market as the tenants are planning to leave at the end of the year anyway.

    The other option is to go all electric and fit a meter for each room, so the tenants have to pay for their own usage. However electric costs about 3 times as much as gas per KWh. Best if you get a new supply installed for each room, so it is not the landlord’s problem to collect the payments or sell the cards. The cost of getting new electric supply in, as at least as much as the cost of installing gas heating.
    • CommentAuthorTriassic
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2015
     
    Sensor on window linked to a zone valve on radiator.

    Open the window and the valve shuts off heat to radiator.

    Simples!
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2015
     
    Posted By: ringiMost landlords include an "acceptable usage policy" in the AST and charge ALL the tenants if the usage of utilities goes about the set amount.

    Outside of the student market, I would be thinking about giving out a S21 to any tenant I found leaving windows open after the first warning. They don't work in the student market as the tenants are planning to leave at the end of the year anyway.
    I mean the mould is the landlord's problem. The mould is a function of the building's surface heat loss and ventilation, right? Being the fabric/services, both of those are the landlord's problem.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2015
     
    No mould is normally down to the tenants life style, e.g. drying washing inside. Therefore it is normal to deduct the cost of painting from the deposit, unless the tenant can prove there has for example been a leaking gutter and it had been reported to the landlord.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2015
     
    Thanks T Sensor on window linked to a zone valve on radiator.

    Open the window and the valve shuts off heat to radiator.

    Simples!

    With two windows and two or even three rads in some rooms, not so simples without complex and expensive web linking.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2015
     
    Posted By: tonyWith two windows and two or even three rads in some rooms, not so simples without complex and expensive web linking.
    That is now dirt cheap technology, but 3 mechanical switches wired in series to control any number of valves would not be that expensive.
    An alternative could be to have a shut off valve that senses room temperature and radiator temperature. When there is a large difference, i.e. radiator on and window open, then the radiator shuts down. That can't be too hard to sort out, be just like a TRV but with a cam rather than a linear sensor.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2015
     
    can you beat £25 each for 300 of?
    • CommentAuthorgravelld
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2015 edited
     
    Posted By: ringiNo mould is normally down to the tenants life style, e.g. drying washing inside. Therefore it is normal to deduct the cost of painting from the deposit, unless the tenant can prove there has for example been a leaking gutter and it had been reported to the landlord.
    If you sell a product, you have to deal with the use of the product. If I sold some software which wiped the user's hard drive if they pressed some wrong keys, whose problem is it?

    Damp is perfectly solvable. Not cheaply solvable, necessarily, but if you're going to invest your money you have to take on board the risk.

    Personally I think landlords get too easy a ride.

    Yes, maybe I am being a bit provocative and going overboard, but as per my previous sentence.
    • CommentAuthoratomicbisf
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2015 edited
     
    Posted By: ringiNo mould is normally down to the tenants life style, e.g. drying washing inside. Therefore it is normal to deduct the cost of painting from the deposit, unless the tenant can prove there has for example been a leaking gutter and it had been reported to the landlord.


    I don't think so. If the walls are sufficiently cold then there will be condensation and mould growth even with normal humidity levels. Add to that homes that have no provision for outdoor drying (eg flats) and you'll find mould growth is common.

    We had this problem where we lived before in a flat converted out of a large Victorian house. No access to a garden for drying and no drier vented to the outside. Gas cooker with no extractor. All added up to massive mould growth on all external walls wherever furniture was against it.

    The landlord did whinge about mould, but had to accept that short of opening the windows in all weather and freezing, it was inevitable.

    Ed

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