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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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    • CommentAuthorWestie
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2016
     
    I recently started stripping off the lath & plaster in one of my bedroom walls, with the intention of installing wood fibre insulation batts between the framework that the laths are nailed to, and re-boarding with plasterboard.

    On stripping one of the walls I have found that the laths were supported by thin vertical strips of wood that are secured to the external stone wall by small wedges which are hammered into the mortar. The wedges only protrude from the wall by around 50mm, so there is no space to install insulation.

    I have been advised that there are two possible solutions to this situation:

    1. Remove the wooden wedges and strap the solid wall with a framework and install the insulation between the strapping.

    2. Have a stud wall built away from the external wall, which would slightly reduce the size of the room, and infill the gaps in the stud work with the wood fibre insulation.

    I'm looking for some advice as to which would be the best option.

    Thanks.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2016
     
    No wood, or strapping, use sheet insulation and adhesive or foam

    Reading up on this on historic Scotland would be a good move.
  1.  
    3. Remove wedges, dub out and straighten the walls with hemp lime plaster and then attach 100mm pavadentro tongue and groove woodfibre batts, 2 coats of plaster on top (one course, one smooth). Zero thermal bridges and a breathable wall. If you're not a plasterer and do the first coat yourself (as I did) then you'll get that authentic cottage wobbly look. :)
  2.  
    I agree with Pile-o-Stone, if your stone is not so uneven that you can't dub it flat. I had rather assumed, with the wedges and all, that it might be just too rough. Remember, if you have dubbed out a lot and use 100mm boards, you need some pretty long fixings.

    With a bit of practice and a sponge, you don't even need to get the country cottage look. I am definitely not a plasterer, but get a very good finish with the Baumit plasters. *Much* easier than gypsum, but much slower, too, which is frustrating for small areas (though not so bad if it is your own house - more of a bu**er if the job is 25 miles away!).

    A general point worth remembering with rigid wood-fibre - If the walls are badly 'bent', 100mm won't take a bend, but 40, 40 and 20 will. I did a very 'bent' wall in Derbyshire that way. More bridging because of more mech fixings, but a relatively small price to pay.
    • CommentAuthorWestie
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2016
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: tony</cite>No wood, or strapping, use sheet insulation and adhesive or foam

    Reading up on this on historic Scotland would be a good move.</blockquote>

    Tony, I phoned Historic Scotland today and spoke to one of their technical staff who advised me that strapping the walls should not be a problem and pointed me to one of their case studies where they had done something similar:

    http://conservation.historic-scotland.gov.uk/publication-detail?pubid=9633

    I'm not a plasterer, so if I go down the plastering route others have suggested, I will need to get someone in to do this.

    Thanks everyone for the advice.
    • CommentAuthoralexj
    • CommentTimeSep 5th 2016
     
    I'm late into the discussion but wonder if you considered hempcrete, Westie? I've just installed 80mm pavadentro in my bathroom but hadn't accounted for the fact that the walls were actually plastered with cement, not lime as I'd thought when I ordered the insulation. I therefore had to take off all the cement and it was v hard to level the walls - not being a plasterer myself. I'm sure I've ended up with air gaps behind the woodfibre which is not brilliant. I'm about to use hempcrete to insulate the living room and am dealing with similarly uneven walls - just Victorian brick but pretty uneven. I think - and can report back later - that hempcrete will be a better solution as it moulds to the walls rather than having to dub out or otherwise flatten off.
  3.  
    Hi Alex, are you shuttering the hemp/lime? If so, I agree with you about the ease of getting it straight. If you are trowelling, I think you will just find your dubbing problems multiplied.
  4.  
    +1 on troweling, especially with the thickness you'll be doing with hempcrete.

    I was just wondering what the difference in cost and thermal performance would be with hempcrete vs fibreboard for the same thickness? I will be moving onto the next room shortly and I'm happy to change products if the results would be superior (I've used 100mm fibre boards).

    The only thing putting me off would be the amount of effort in building the shuttering than just drilling and hammer fixing the boards, but if a little more effort yields better results then I'm happy to do it.
  5.  
    I've done IWI foamed on and it was easy!! taping and jointing was easy too, but left the final finish to a pro due to time constraints and the 50m2 ceiling I couldn't do (well)

    Worth a look
  6.  
    Breath-ability has been mentioned here with no mention of air-tightness which is 99 times more important.
    If Pavadendro is badly fitted with gaps where the boards meet the floor/ceiling and each other then you'll have similar condensation problems on the outer wall as with insulated plasterboard.
    If insulated plasterboard is fitted correctly in an airtight manner with expanding foam at the floor + ceiling and between boards then there will be no moisture present where the board meets the wall to condense. To eliminate air-movement behind insulated plasterboard use expanding foam around the perimeter and a few lines horizontally, this eliminates the need to level the wall. Dampen the wall before you stick Ins P'board to it, it improves adhesion and helps the foam to go off. If there's any hollow sections behind a sheet of Ins P'board, drill a hole, stick in the nozzle and fill with foam.
    There's never been a documented case of structural decay in a building resulting from water vapour diffusion!
  7.  
    Isn't spalling an example of structural decay in a building resulting from water vapour diffusion?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 6th 2016
     
    Posted By: Pile-o-StoneIsn't spalling an example of structural decay in a building resulting from water vapour diffusion?

    More usually caused by rain soaking in from outside and freezing, I think.
    • CommentAuthorwookey
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2016
     
    If doing what VH suggests (and I think it's a good suggestion), I'd use separate insulation and PB, as it's much easier to get good airtightness (and it's about 30% cheaper). It does take longer this way though. I've not used pavadentro, but foaming that in place (and then PB on top) presumably works too (or is the surface too friable?)
    •  
      CommentAuthorBauwer
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2016 edited
     
    Posted By: Viking HouseBreath-ability has been mentioned here with no mention of air-tightness which is 99 times more important.
    If Pavadendro is badly fitted with gaps where the boards meet the floor/ceiling and each other then you'll have similar condensation problems on the outer wall as with insulated plasterboard.
    If insulated plasterboard is fitted correctly in an airtight manner with expanding foam at the floor + ceiling and between boards then there will be no moisture present where the board meets the wall to condense. To eliminate air-movement behind insulated plasterboard use expanding foam around the perimeter and a few lines horizontally, this eliminates the need to level the wall. Dampen the wall before you stick Ins P'board to it, it improves adhesion and helps the foam to go off. If there's any hollow sections behind a sheet of Ins P'board, drill a hole, stick in the nozzle and fill with foam.
    There's never been a documented case of structural decay in a building resulting from water vapour diffusion!



    Bauwer Insulation is the alternative to insulated plasterboard being highly vapour permeable solution, easy to install and achieve air tightness as well. You could see the application process at:

    https://youtu.be/oxogp2uRgaw
  8.  
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: wookey</cite>If doing what VH suggests (and I think it's a good suggestion), I'd use separate insulation and PB, as it's much easier to get good airtightness (and it's about 30% cheaper). It does take longer this way though. I've not used pavadentro, but foaming that in place (and then PB on top) presumably works too (or is the surface too friable?)</blockquote>

    Depends where you get it from, but as Tony pointed out before you save from the extra labour. Composite sheets certainly saved me time and money than batoning the walls and doing it that way.
    • CommentAuthorRoger
    • CommentTimeSep 8th 2016
     
    Posted By: WestieI recently started stripping off the lath & plaster in one of my bedroom walls, with the intention of installing wood fibre insulation batts between the framework that the laths are nailed to, and re-boarding with plasterboard.


    Historic Scotland would have said fill the void between lathe and wall with EPS beads and leave the wall intact.
    • CommentAuthoralexj
    • CommentTimeSep 12th 2016
     
    Nick, yes, I'm using shuttering for the hempcrete. I could use hemp lime plaster but I'm using 100mm on uneven walls and might go mad just thinking about plastering that on!
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