Home  5  Books  5  GBEzine  5  News  5  HelpDesk  5  Register  5  GreenBuilding.co.uk
Not signed in (Sign In)

Categories



Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

Buy individually or both books together. Delivery is free!


powered by Surfing Waves




Vanilla 1.0.3 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

Welcome to new Forum Visitors
Join the forum now and benefit from discussions with thousands of other green building fans and discounts on Green Building Press publications: Apply now.

The AECB accepts no responsibility or liability for any errors or omissions in the content of this site. Views given in posts are not necessarily the views of the AECB.



    • CommentAuthorblacksmith
    • CommentTimeMar 25th 2008
     
    I am currently re-roofing on a stone barn – and an insulation compromise, as I am unable to change the roof so using polyurethane sheet 70 mm x 2. Installed in between and under rafters (75 mm thick) I would rather not use plasterboard over this – preferring the use of lime plaster but have been advised by the company that this will cause a potential adverse reaction with the foil coating.

    Are there any suggestions out there as to an alternative covering that could enable the use a lime based covering over this material (foil) or is there another ingenious and satisfactory way to finish a ceiling other than plasterboard that is not heavy nor thick?
  1.  
    How about timber t&g?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 25th 2008
     
    Or paper then lime?

    Lime reacts with aluminium. Funnily enough not all the foils are aluminium though.
    • CommentAuthorblacksmith
    • CommentTimeMar 26th 2008
     
    I had not thought of either so thank you for this - I will look into what t&g is available locally, I have had some trees cut up and planked recently but I don't think the saw will cut very thin but I can get some nice wide boards out though.

    Paper? would this be plain ordinary lining paper?
  2.  
    RE the t&g. You would probably need to fix battens first so that you can secret nail the t&g with small pins
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeMar 26th 2008 edited
     
    Wouldn't wood make it rather dark? I guess you could paint it.
    •  
      CommentAuthorali.gill
    • CommentTimeMar 26th 2008
     
    Nice tip mike, i've seen plenty that haven't done this and it looks pretty untidy. should also mention about staggering the joints cos not doing that just looks awful.
    also b'smith smaller section timber would be less prone to movement, twisting, cupping, etc. depends how rustic you want it to look.
    i think the paper tony refers to is building paper which encapsulates a bituminous layer. i would assume to mesh that too but check back.
    vapour control layer on the t'n'g method too ? i take it you're fixing into the original rafters - my advice nail don't screw.
  3.  
    Thanks ali I forgot to mention the Vapour barrier between battens and insulation which I would do also.

    I would screw the battens with 100mm screws in line and below the existing rafters but pilot hole first to avoid splitting. I only use nails these days for fine finishing such as architrayves and t&g. Screws will pull the insulation nice and tight. Nails just bounce and may cause damage to original rafters if they hit a knot or are too close to the edge.
    • CommentAuthorblacksmith
    • CommentTimeMar 26th 2008
     
    a lovely simple idea and a solution to attach the insulation as well. Thank you.


    The company that provides the insulation stipulates that if the joints in the insulation are taped together with a foil tape this, with the foil coating will provide a vapour barrier - have I understood this correctly? or is it as well to fix another one as well? The roof is being fitted with a breather membrane above rafter level.
  4.  
    I fix a layer of polythene as well -I worry that tape can lose its adhesion over time. Cheap polythen cover sheeting is about £15 for 25m x 4m roll so its a no brainer. Just staple it to the insulation
  5.  
    Best not to fit two vapour barriers - you don't want vapour getting trapped between them. Foil faced insulation board properly taped is a vapour barrier. The foil tape should be applied and then passed over with a small roller to make sure it's properly attached.

    Paul in Montreal.
    •  
      CommentAuthorali.gill
    • CommentTimeMar 26th 2008 edited
     
    never seen a batch of insulation batts delivered with foil coating intact on all the boards.
    just realised we're commenting on the assumption that the rafters are running in plane. highly unlikely on a traditional barn, or any roof you've not done yourself come to think of it. solution to that is time consuming work with building strings that will pay dividends and more when you come to insulate, board, finish whatever. not so critical if lime plastering but always worth the time while the kettle boils standing back taking it all in and setting up some strings to give an idea on how the existing roof plane sits along the line of the rafters.
    whats happening at the ridge line ? if you have raised collar ties you could spend half a day setting up your levels and plane, but the reward will be worth it in time saved when finishing.
    of course you could use a laser line but strings allow the whole roof to be set-out. measure what you need to pack out to a common level, order 3x1, 4x1 accordingly and attach to the edge of the rafters and ties. Pilot hole first (even spend a few minutes with a chalk marking serious knots to avoid first- saves time later changing busted drillbits). (Mike, when u have a paslode - habit is to shoot nails : into anything that doesn't shoot back, usually).
    was a suggestion on a thread before to loose fit insulation batts with wedges and fill with exp foam. maybe mikes tip. set batts up to the string level proud of the original rafters, allows you to fill the 2"void (width of rafter) between rafter and string line with more exp foam and prevent thermal bridging. before final overlayer of ins. batts measure from a fixed point the centres of the rafter add-ons and make a proper note of the fixing point locations using the dimensions.
    a chalk line more than pays for itself on these jobs too.

    actually why bother with polychemical stuff - why not use warmcel. not sure on what thickness you'd need for reg's compliance. i've only got 3" thick in between timber frame, roof and floor and dont need heating on after todays sunshine.
    good luck
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeMar 27th 2008 edited
     
    Posted By: Paul in MontrealBest not to fit two vapour barriers - you don't want vapour getting trapped between them. Foil faced insulation board properly taped is a vapour barrier. The foil tape should be applied and then passed over with a small roller to make sure it's properly attached.

    Paul in Montreal.


    Thats an interesting point Paul. I have just done exactly this on job and have done so several times in the past, though in most cases the insulation is cut between the rafters so any barrier is 'broken' by the rafters themselves.

    As ali says, foil coating is rarely intact. It also comes in different grades and therefore various levels of vapour permeability. Most materials are not completely vapour impermiable whether advertised as such or not, and the risk of vapour condensing is highly unlikely on the warm side of the insulation.

    Edit: More likely that vapour which finds its way through the first layer will continue on its merry way through gaps in the second- eventually hitting the cold surface on the external face [where there is often another layer of foil] of the insulation or beyond. If what you say was a significant risk then the insulation manufacturers would not adhere foil to both sides of their rigid slabs would they?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 27th 2008
     
    I never used tape (too expensive for a possible temporary job) I always used polythene as a combined air barrier/vapour control layer.

    What about multilayering boards then there are lots of foil layers (vapour barriers) within the insulation both on the warm and cold sides.
  6.  
    Thinking more about this. Building reg requirements for loft conversions are usually TWO layers of PUR insulation, meaning FOUR foil faces.
    • CommentAuthormotco
    • CommentTimeSep 3rd 2008 edited
     
    I'm new to this forum and probably a bit late for the o/p's benefit. I have insulated a concrete ceiling in a top floor flat using Celotex with taped joins. To hide it and provide a good finish I used a Clipso stretch ceiling. Easy to fit and a beautiful appearance. Google Clipso for the manufacturer's website. There's a UK agent if you need to find out more - I'll give you details if you need them.
Add your comments

    Username Password
  • Format comments as
 
   
The Ecobuilding Buzz
Site Map    |   Home    |   View Cart    |   Pressroom   |   Business   |   Links   
Logout    

© Green Building Press