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General: Thermodynamic panels

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeAug 28th 2019
     
    Any thoughts from anyone on this heating system please:

    https://www.energie.pt/en/products/bloco-solar-termodinamico

    We have a south-west facing wall on the gable end of our place. It is a large expanse of wall with no windows in it so could easily be covered with these panels. As they appear to be a refrigerant based then direct sun is presumably not essential as they are effectively an air-to-water heat pump system. I have emailed them today to see if they have any representation in the UK.
    • CommentAuthorgyrogear
    • CommentTimeAug 29th 2019 edited
     
    Looks like the smallest version is for 90 sq.m, requiring six panels... how big is your gable ?

    gg
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 29th 2019
     
    They do work but not as well as ASHP

    The ones that are near me which have only about 1m2 of collector spend a lot of time covered in ice in the winter
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeAug 29th 2019
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: gyrogear</cite>Looks like the smallest version is for 90 sq.m, requiring six panels... how big is your gable ?

    gg</blockquote>

    gyrogear - I think the reference to 90 sq.m. is referring to the floor area within the house which is to be heated, not the area of the 6 panels. Otherwise it would mean that each panel is about 15 sq.m.! Our gable end is 7.5 metres long at the base, 2.5 metres from the ground to the start of the roof and about 6 metres to the apex so quite a large area. We did contemplate putting extra PV panels on this wall but it is too complicated a business to extend the existing installation (FIT issues etc).

    Another thought we had was to experiment with EWI just on this gable end as it is out of sight from the road and see what effect it would have and also to give us some experience of dabbling with EWI on a DIY basis. But that's another story!
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeAug 29th 2019 edited
     
    Tried to send a photo of gable end but failed.
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeAug 29th 2019
     
    Posted By: tonyThey do work but not as well as ASHP

    The ones that are near me which have only about 1m2 of collector spend a lot of time covered in ice in the winter


    Tony - that does not sound too good! I don't know if this system has a defrost facility, something to ask when I hear back from the company. I got an automated email to say that they are on holiday until Sept. 2nd. If your neighbour has the system then presumably there is a UK agent somewhere.
    • CommentAuthorGreenPaddy
    • CommentTimeAug 29th 2019
     
    Pretty sure these have been discussed on here before, and general consensus was waste of time.

    Didn't see anything in my quick scan of this website, which actually describes how they function, just sales bull####.

    Mostly, you'll be trying to reject coolth from the refrigerant, via the panels, in winter, as you try to generate hot water for space heating or DHW. A GSHP would use the ground to receive this coolth, which is basically using your your whole backgarden as a solar panel which also has the capacity to store heat energy over the year.

    These panels are relatively small in area, have no stored heat capacity, so can't reject the coolth quickly enough, and as Tony described, just end up being frosted all the time. They may work a little better in southern europe, where they get cold/dry/sunny days, much more often than us with our damp, cloudy, days, which also makes the likelihood of frosting greater.

    Very happy to hear of people who have these and they are proven to work well.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 29th 2019
     
    Posted By: Jeff BTried to send a photo of gable end but failed.

    It was probably too large. I don't remember the file size allowed but it's not enough for a high-res picture. Tryt reducing the resolution to get a smaller file.

    I agree with GP's assessment. The site does say the system is basically a fridge in reverse and has no defrost.
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeAug 29th 2019
     
    Second attempt with smaller file size:
      Pine end no EWI reduced size.jpg
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeAug 29th 2019
     
    GreenPaddy - I am hoping that the company does have an agent in the UK who I can talk to and then point me to any UK customers who are actually using the system. Currently, leaving aside the technical issues, I have no idea how much such a system would cost compared to a conventional ASHP set up. I would need at least the 12 panel system for our place so the cost could be prohibitive anyway.
    • CommentAuthordathi
    • CommentTimeSep 4th 2019
     
    6.5.2. AUTO Operating Mode
    In AUTO oerating mode, the equipment will run
    as a Thermodynamic System and/or Resistance,
    and the operation of the resistance is managed in
    an optimized way for the purpose of keeping up
    the efficiency of the equipment.
    The resistance will start every time:
    ï‚· The user activates it manually (key EHeater).
    ï‚· The contact LP opens (low external
    temperature, lack of fluid, leak in the
    circuit, etc.).
    ï‚· The time for running the compressor
    exceeds parameter T05*
    ï‚· The water temperature is below P08*

    i took this from the energise installation manual there is a built in immersion which they call "resistance" which comes on when there is low temps etc . a lot of people here in ireland installed the smaller systems to heat just hot water under a solar hot water grant , and anyone who has bothered to monitor the electrical usage of the units have found very high electrical usage.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJul 1st 2021
     
    Posted By: tonyThey do work but not as well as ASHP

    Do you have any links to information on that Tony?

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