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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
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General: High flying mice

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    I was surprised to see 'snow' on the floor today in August! EPS beads coming from a hole about 7ft high up, above the garage door. Some creature has excavated a nest into the EPS insulation, about 100mm wide.

    The garage is timber frame with plywood cladding, with EPS sheets between the studs. The cladding is probably 10-15 years old and has weathered and split in a few places on the sunny side.

    First guess was a bird did it, but all happened overnight so I think probably a mouse. I know they climb (we trap them in the loft) but didn't think they'd nest that high up the sheer face of a wall.

    Anybody got suggestions how to evict them? Guess the cladding will need replacing.
      IMG_20200808_112753630_HDR_copy_1040x780.jpg
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2020
     
    I spent ages trying to track down where mice were getting into my house. I found it by chance when a suddenly noticed a mouse at the base of the house wall scurry up the vertical rough render and into a small gap between the soffit and the wall a good 3 meters up.
  3.  
    We had a bird create identical debris in the barn conversion before we got the windows fitted, although it was foil-faced PIR in our case fitted between rafters. The location was on top of a purlin, a nice spot for a nest/roost. I suspected mice at first until I actually caught him in the act when I was working in there - I could hear him working away at the other end of the room busier than me!
    Once the windows were in, he couldn't get in any more. Could it be a bird in your case?
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2020
     
    It may well be a bird. We had a similar incident with a wren, although the original hole could have been made by a mouse.
  5.  
    Not sure, but think it maybe a mouse, as the 'snow' appeared overnight, it's not bird nesting season and the split in the cladding was a bit too narrow for a bird to get in... but either way I'd like to prevent any more damage to the EPS!

    Several folks here have installed wooden cladding over EPS - did you do anything special to keep mice or birds out of the EPS if any shrinks or splits should open in the timber when it weathers?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2020
     
    🦇?
  7.  
    Posted By: tony🦇?

    Shush
  8.  
    Don't think so, we have plenty of pipistrelles but they don't excavate 100mm nests. They only weigh a few grammes and they eat midges, don't think their jaws would open far enough to tackle an EPS bead! Edit: they apparently prefer nesting in cracks 15-20mm wide.

    I'm not too bothered what creature it was... what do people do to protect EPS insulation under wood cladding?
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2020
     
    Cover it with metal mesh before cladding??
  10.  
    Interesting idea, has anyone done that? Galv or stainless? Over or under battens?
    • CommentAuthorphiledge
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2020
     
    If using mesh be aware mice can easily get through 1/2" x 1" mesh- seen them running in and out of a rabbit cage helping themselves to the rabbit food!
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2020
     
    I covered PIR insulation with breathable roofing membrane then battens then cladding with 35 mm gap. Guess they could chew through that but not had any issues (famous last words)
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2020
     
    Posted By: philedgeIf using mesh be aware mice can easily get through 1/2" x 1" mesh- seen them running in and out of a rabbit cage helping themselves to the rabbit food!


    I have watched mice get through 10mm square mesh but the 8mm I fitted afterwards seemed to do the trick.


    WillieinAberdeen,


    If your detailing on the cladding is good especially at the base that should do.
  14.  
    Mice can get through our 450mm thk granite walls! I was thinking of 1/4" mesh but not sure how it would last unseen in the drainage gap behind the cladding.

    Thanks Jonti, the detail at the base isn't the problem here, rather it is one of the cladding boards that has warped in the sunshine, at its end where it butts against the next board, >2m high up the face of the wall. This has opened a gap about a fingertip wide between the boards, which something has got through and dug into the EPS. From our limited knowledge of the previous owners, the cladding is no more than 15years old.

    Solutions could be to replace all the boards every 10years (not sustainable) or some extra layer over the EPS such as mesh or cement board.
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2020
     
    Or re-fix the board and if this is not possible cut out the warped but and splice in a new but. It sounds to me as though the cladding is only nailed on if warping has occurred. I would always nail and screw mine if they have to stay perfectly in place.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2020
     
    If you do consider re boarding and it's a painted finish, then fibre cement T&G boards instead of wood is agood option IMO.
    If you do stick with wood then end to end butt joints are always best biscuit jointed together with the joint over a stud, ( or double stud ideally ), with both ends fixed. I assume the existing boards are T&G or ship lap in which case removal of the single board may be a problem.
    • CommentAuthorGreenPaddy
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2020
     
    I fit this along the base, where the tails of the vert battens allow vetilation. Retrofittting is much trickier than fixing when the battens and cladding are installed.... perseverance and gloves for the jaggy edges!!

    www.meshdirect.co.uk/fly-screen-insect-mesh/fly-screen-stainless-steel/stainless-fly-screen/grade-304-stainless-steel-woven-fly-screen/stainless-woven-fly-screen.html

    If replacing the cladding;

    - staple the mesh along the base of the timber frame wall, where the battens will stop, so it hangs down.

    - fix the battens over the top (could be a horiz batten, then vert, or just vert batten - depends on cladding direction).

    - fold the mesh under the batten tails, and up the batten face, so that the cladding will then trap the mesh against the batten.

    - the width of the mesh roll required will depend on the depth of the batten buildup of course.
  18.  
    Thanks all!

    The garage is clad with plywood boards, which are in good condition on 3 sides but quite weathered on the south side that gets full sun. All edges are on studs afaics. There are several boards on that side with warped corners, the nails (actually chunky staples) have pulled through the ply as it has lifted and the edges are now a bit too ragged to fix back down reliably. I have patched the one where the EPS was being dug out by birdbatmousething, but a few more are in similarly warped condition. I have 1001 other tasks to do first, but I will remove all the ply and replace with shiplap, probably over mesh or cement board.

    As mentioned, there are no problems with critters getting in round the base of the walls. The problem is in the middle of the wall, approx 7ft high off the ground, where two pieces butt.

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