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General: Non-combustible alternative to Compacfoam for door sills

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    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2021
     
    Am I right in saying there is nothing on the market like Compacfoam that's non-combustible?

    That is:
    1. Suitable for taking a the load and fixings of a door
    2. Non-combustible
    3. Provides insulation
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2021
     
    Foamglas Perinsul?

    Though I expect Compacfoam has fire retardants in it. Don't know though.

    Door fixings are normally through the sides, so I'm not clear what load they would take?
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeFeb 3rd 2021
     
    Thanks Dave, I did think about Foamglas but none of their details online show it being used under a door. And the door I'm talking about is 6 m wide, so needs fixing somewhere along the bottom to provide lateral restraint. But I guess we could fix back to the slab with lugs, as long as the the foamglas can take the dead load of the door.
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeFeb 3rd 2021
     
    Found this:
    https://perinsul.foamglas.com/en-gb/thermal-bridging-advice/how-to/how-to-install-under-windows-door-sills

    "Fixing positions for a door or window are determined by the manufacturer. It is not recommended to fix through PERINSUL HL blocks, as this has a detrimental impact on their function as a thermal break.
    Fixings can be made through a perpend joint, and it is therefore advised to consult with the door or window manufacturer, and FOAMGLAS®, to agree an appropriate fixing method based on the requirements of the project.
    To prevent point loads acting on the PERINSUL HL units, a supporting board such as fibre cement should be laid on the units. The door or window can then be installed with a full mortar bed on the supporting board."
    • CommentAuthorwookey
    • CommentTimeFeb 18th 2021
     
    Perinsul blocks don't take fixings usefully - they just chibble up. Whereas compacfoam takes screws pretty well. But perinsul will take the dead load, so yeah you'll just have to work out how to do the lateral fixings (stainless strapping)?
    Is the base of the door really going to catch fire? Can't you add a fireproof layer behind/in-front-of the compacfoam to satisfy any burn-time/fire spread requirement?

    compacfoam is described as having 'moderate' fire resistance here: https://materialdistrict.com/material/compacfoam/
    And 'Euroclass E' here: https://www.partel.co.uk/product/55/5/compacfoam which is quite bad.
    And 'E(B1) flame-retardant' on the datasheet: https://www.compacfoam.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Datenblatt_CF_E_2019.pdf
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2021 edited
     
    Posted By: wookeyIs the base of the door really going to catch fire? Can't you add a fireproof layer behind/in-front-of the compacfoam to satisfy any burn-time/fire spread requirement?

    That's a very good idea, thanks. We could probably use some of this stuff:
    http://thermalbridgingsolutions.com/thermal-break-products/thermal-break-material-tbm-3

    I will run it past building control.

    The driver here is the new BS 8579 2020, requiring that buildings with an occupied floor over 11 m have non-combustible materials to balconies where they may be used for escape.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2021
     
    Posted By: ShevekWe could probably use some of this stuff

    All the certifications/data seem to be American. Is it available here?
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2021
     
    Oh shit, I could have sworn I was looking at a UK site!
    • CommentAuthorShevek
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2021
     
    In the mean time, I did find this image on Foamglas' website, which demonstrates nicely their description of loading the door on top of the Foamglas as long as a fibre cement board is laid over top first.
      3D image window.jpg
    • CommentAuthornstansbury
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2021 edited
     
    Although we used Compacfoam around the front door, we used Armadillo's Armatherm 500 under our large rear glass sliding doors that were 250kgs each panel.

    It has much higher structural properties, and I seem to remember it has a better U-Value than Compacfoam too. The door installer had never seen it before, they were used to insisting customers installed a lovely cold bridging concrete upstand, I refused and insisted they install on this stuff. Afterwards, they said it was the easiest install they'd ever done. Strange stuff, looks like wood and then you pick it up.

    https://www.armatherm.co.uk/products/500-structural-thermal-break-material/
    • CommentAuthorGreenPaddy
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2021
     
    @ nstansbury,

    really interesting product. Did you buy it directly from Armatherm? standard sizes or design & supply? This could solve a multitude of sins, if I kept a small stock of this, and free-issued lengths to my builders, each time they cast the slabs/door thresholds.

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