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Heating and cooling: Solar Heating for Shower Only?

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthordunny
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2010
     
    I run a small campsite which has traditionly focused on caravans. I would really like to build some tipi's which have a real 'Back to nature' feel. Like the rest of the campsite, i want this experience to be as green, and as eco friendly as possible. I want to build a small wood building that contains a toilet, and shower. Obviously, the shower needs hot water. Is there anyway i can use solar panels to do this, and would it be possible? and what equipment would i need? I should imagine i would only need water for 4 showers per day.

    Any help on this subject would be gratefully received

    Thanks in advance
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2010
     
    yep say 4m^2 of solar panels (or old rads) on the roof facing south, old copper cylinder, pump and a small pv panel

    If panels can be lower than cylinder then thermosyphon and no pump needed

    A shower timer is a must!!!!
    • CommentAuthordunny
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2010
     
    Thanks Tony! Sorry my knowledge is very limited, is there any books on the subject? I take it it could be completed on a relatively small budget? Whats a shower timer? Whats a pv panel.

    Sorry, like i said very limited knowledge

    Thanks again
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2010
     
    A shower timer is a device that stops some using all the hot water -- say 4 mins max then cold shower only!!

    Go down the tip and get some old rads and an old cylinder and you are almost there.

    pv = photovoltaic = expensive and they make electricity.

    lots of books but mot so many on Heath Robinson set ups which is what you want.
  5.  
    I can advise on 'Heath Robinson' set-ups, but you will have to do, and pass, a legionella risk assessment - generally done by having a way of heating the water to 60 deg if the SWH does not get it there.
  6.  
    Showers are a risk because they produce aerosols which are how Legionellae enter and infect the lung. So is tepid water and intermittenty used facilities as they give the bugs time to grow. I'd consider a thermal store as a solution. I have installed many such installations. Pass the water from this store to a solar panel and back, when the sun shines, for as long as you need. Take the heat ot from the store via a large heat exchanger and top up the heat with a combi boiler. It minimises Legionella risk by having a small stored water volume in the heat exchanger only, a small surface area for them to live on and a frequent water turnover rate.

    The UK HSE legionella guidance L8 (which applies to solar thermal as well as heat pumps) is here: http://books.hse.gov.uk/hse/public/saleproduct.jsf?catalogueCode=9780717617722. Don't buy the document! A link to a free pdf download can be found half way down the page. Meeting legionella guidance paragraph158 seems to be the main challenge for solar twin coil solar cylinders.

    Based on a talk I was asked ti do recentkly at the H&V "Combating Legionella" conference, here's a link to a video on solar water heating and legionellosis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnKh9mdjImA

    I hope this is interesting and not too late to be of use in your considerations - Barry.
    • CommentAuthorevan
    • CommentTimeSep 24th 2010
     
    Can you kill legionella by other means? It seems a shame to be hamstrung by yet more regulations over fairly theoretical risks.

    UV light does for most bugs. How about a little "sight glass" on the thermosyphon pipe to the tank, all the heated water passes through this while the sun is shining, and the UV light should kill off anything in the water. Right?
    • CommentAuthordickster
    • CommentTimeSep 24th 2010
     
    Don't scald your campers!
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeSep 24th 2010
     
    hopefully you will have an indirect system -- so no.
    • CommentAuthorevan
    • CommentTimeSep 24th 2010
     
    It's a campsite though, so could be drained in the winter - save on antifreeze and your tank doesn't need a coil.
  11.  
    Barry, or anyone:

    How long does it take for a legionella population to grow from chlorinated mains tap water into a population density that would be above the target threshold (1000 CFU/litre) if it is kept at optimal growth temperatures (apparently 35C to 46C according to Wikipedia) but in the dark?

    I did a quick Google but couldn't find an answer

    Thanks,
    Mark.
    • CommentAuthorDantenz
    • CommentTimeSep 24th 2010
     
    Posted By: tonyyep say 4m^2 of solar panels (or old rads) on the roof facing south, old copper cylinder, pump and a small pv panelt!!!!

    Oh please Tony, lets get real, are you really suggesting in this day & age that some one fits "old radiators on their roof" for solar hot water heating. Who would really want their house looking like Steptoes yard!?
    • CommentAuthorevan
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2010
     
    Dantenz: this isn't a neat house in suburbia, it's a field with some tipis in it, and a wooden shower hut. Old radiators bodged on to the roof is entirely appropriate, if it works. It's called re-using, and being inventive. Being green, you might even say.

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