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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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  1.  
    Not quite a green question, but it may be something that someone here will have encountered before... the cavity wall insulation was done some time ago now in the wall (rockwool type) and it appears that ever since then there has been quite a bit of damp and the south facing internal wall is actually wet to the touch in places.

    I've hacked a few bricks out and had a look, and I can see the rockwool stuff, it's very wet and whilst raining water is actually running down both sides of the cavity wall. I've done the obvious - repointed just about the whole wall, checked for anything leaking and generally plugged all gaps and holes. The rockwool seems to make the problems worse as it has clumped together in big soggy lumps.

    I don't want to use these silicon type wall products as in my humble experience they seem to have little or no effect. Does anyone have any suggestions? anything I've missed here?
  2.  
    Hi Adrian, I guess you know there are some here who are worried about fully filling cavities on existing buildings [me included] Can you tell me what type of bricks you have on the outside wall? Also what mix you used for the pointing?

    There is also more discussion about this here

    http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=18&page=1#Item_26
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2007
     
    If you were to lime render it the problem would go away.

    Where is all the water coming from? Just from driving rain? roof? leaking plumbing/shower? If from driving rain then the wall must be very badly built!
  3.  
    The trouble with problems like this is that they are virually impossible to diagnose via forum. It could be any of the things mentioned or none of them. I think you need to get someone on site to have a good look.

    I have no time for silicone based products on walls.
  4.  
    Mike, it's a 1950's red brick house with 1950's cement. I've just about re-pointed every hole that I can find (a builder did this job so I've no idea what mix he used), and I cannot see anything leaking in through the roof or being blown under the soffits.

    Rendering may be an option, but we'd be the only house and we are in a conservation area (so planning etc may be difficult).

    Tony, I've checked the obvious - there are no water/waste pipes near the main part of the damp, and the running water (down the inside of the cavity) only occurs when it's raining. Water literally run's over your hand down the inside of the cavity wall (I've never seen that before).

    I'm guessing running water wouldn't be a problem, but the rockwool is soaking it up, bridging the gap and giving us the serious damp/mould problems from half way up the first floor down. The worst damp where the rockwool is clumped and sunk to the ground floor. A hole through the bricks in the loft showed almost no rockwool (i.e. it had compacted down) and very little water or damp.


    It would be interesting to know if the foam would have been better on this wall; and it would be interesting to know if anyone is researching the issues around cavity fill.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2007
     
    I think that you ought to get it out of there, use an wet/dry industrial hoover with a long piece of waste pipe attached having taken a brick out from the bottom corner of the wall.

    Something is not right and the company that installed it may have some liability.

    Foam may not be any good but polystyrene beads may be.
  5.  
    Hi Adrian, sorry to hear all of that. It seems to me that this is an example of where fully filling a cavity is a bad idea. I'm guessing the worst area is on a wall which is severely exposed to bad weather?
  6.  
    Cross posted with Tony and I agree with him
  7.  
    Mike George wrote:''I'm guessing the worst area is on a wall which is severely exposed to bad weather? '' I hope so, or something else is horribly wrong. I am still a little bemused about it *running* down both leaves in the wet. If on a severely exposed elev you might expect the insulant to 'wick' the water across, but I wouldn't expect the water thus wicked to be so copius as to be running. Could something be horribly wrong at eaves level?
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2007 edited
     
    Hi Nick, You may be right there, like I said its practically impossible to diagnose via forum. Maybe the best thing is to get a Surveyor out to check. I'd be happy to go and have a look if the house is anywhere near me [South Wales]
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2007
     
    or me -- where are you?
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeDec 9th 2007
     
    Could it be that rain water is getting in under the tiles higher up the roof then running down the roofing felt, finding a crack in the latter just above the fascia board and then dropping down into the top of the cavity? I only mention this because in my last house the roofing felt sagged between the rafters and was prone to cracking (it was the old tarry based stuff) but although I also had a cavity full of Rockwool I didn't have a damp problem.
  8.  
    That's the sort of thing I was wondering abt, Jeff. Can't think of much else it cd possibly be, but agree with Mike and Tony, it needs a surveyor.
  9.  
    Following my own experiences, I generally advise against cavity wall insulation now, unless the house seems relatively newish (maybe 1980s onwards) as older houses were not designed to have the cavities filled.

    My own situation which I am am having to rectify is this:

    1920s house with loosefill rockwool cavity insulation.

    Problem 1: Cavity is open right down to clay level, hence rockwool is soacking up moisture (extremely wet). As we read elsewhere, wet rockwool can become a good heat conductor, and where I have removed the wet insulation the wall warms up to the touch. We live in quite a damp area.

    Problem 2: Insulation blocked all underfloor vents. This caused severe dry rot in one area.

    Problem 3: Some water being carried over cavity higher up through water ingress through the outer leaf. I have repainted the render to try to waterproof it better, but it seems to have little effect. As the eaves overhang is good, and we are in sheltered area, this is not due to the exposed location / driven rain etc.

    Problem 4: Old tarred paper DPC is breaking down, not helped by lack of ventilation to help dry the brickwork out above and below the DPC (in fact it is carrying the damp up above the DPC anyway.

    Thus I have one option only, as far as I see it: to remove the insulation (not too bad as it is a bungalow undergoing renovation anyway), and cut in a new DPC on the inner leaf. I feel that is the only way to cure the problems.

    I would urge anyone with an older house to think very carefully before putting in CWI, despite what the CWI sales people may claim.
    • CommentAuthorTimber
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2008
     
    I would suggest that with that level of water, it is something worse than wind driven rain.

    I have seen details on a number of occastions were due to a failure of part of the roof, all the rain water collected on the roof was being poured down the external wall cavity.

    Look at the roof, gutters and soffit details.

    Timber
    • CommentAuthorfuncrusher
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2008
     
    Tough problem. Lots of useful speculation from previous commentators. Thoughts: you say it is a south-facing wall. Is it badly exposed to driving rain? where is the damp: top, bottom, near window etc? One possibility might be that the rockfwool has compromised the DPC over the window heads for example. Also, an easy way to rule out the roof as a source is to run a test on the affected wall. Batten some polythene on place, about 2m wide, running ground floor to eaves, and see if damp disappears. If it does, it's definitely rain penetration through the wall, and almost certainly cavity-bridging. In which case, removal is the only answer, coupled with a law suit.
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